Wow. Firstly OMG! I think you're amazing and brave for speaking up.
Yes I had all these questions and more.
I now think we don't understand what illness is at all. The symptoms of a cold can also be seen as a detoxification- of pollutants eg PM25 particularly in the winter when it's not sequestered by leafs, and also now many other environmental toxins, dead cells killed by hypothermia etc. There are only certain ways the body has to detox; mucus, coughing, rashes, spots, fever. This would partly explain why people get sick together, but to say that people in the same room all get presents at Christmas does not prove that it must be Santa!
I also think that there are signals that we send out to each, when it's important that we detox, to trigger reactions in each other and much that we don't understand. We are not islands, and function only in groups. Like trees and mushrooms communicate in incredibly complex ways. I also always think of the fact that yawning is contagious.
Yes I have worked with antibodies for many years. But if the so called viral proteins in cell culture are in fact cellular proteins produced under stress and therefore correlated with illness- then cells in the so called immune system would react to them and certain (not entirely specific) sticky globulins would be produced.
All the transmission studies I have seen for airborne viruses have involved just breathing out what was breathed in or injection directly into the trachea of small mammals and noting symptoms like coughing. I now think all scientific research is unacceptable if it uses animals.
I am sure you have read the Perth Group on the experiments performed by Montagnier which prove nothing. His patient sample (BRU) produced reverse transcriptase (accepted by all to be present in cells) which was called 'isolation' of a virus. He then added umbilical cord cells to the culture. These are known to produce a certain type of vesicle which he called an EM image of HIV (though it was only one 'virus' and it took the technician days to find). He then added his BRU blood back to the cell culture (containing proteins that came from him) and said look we have antibody/protein reactions. No wonder science died in 1984 when the probable cause for AIDS was announced at a press conference and no one was allowed to ask all these obvious questions.
Learning about the actual causes including DDT of polio, diphtheria and measles etc and how they were declining very rapidly into insignificance with better housing, water and the banning of child labour, and then looking at the Pharma marketing website wikipedia that it was actually vaccines that did this, has further confirmed my thoughts on the matter! and that it's easy to get a ban from twitter to mention autism and MMR in the same sentence.
Anyway thank you so much again, great to communicate
Absolutely fascinating. When I first read this article my initial response was, "nah, that's crazy" but the more I think about it the more plausible I find this theory.
Personal anecdote time... I'm almost never sick, in the last 5 years I've probably only had 2 minor illnesses, minor colds that resolve themselves in a few days. In both instances it seemed completely arbitrary. There wasn't anyone who was noticeably symptomatic who I was spending any time around in order to catch anything from. So it's odd that I can not have close personal contact with anyone yet end up getting sick when at other times in the last 5 years I can be surrounded by people who are coughing and spluttering and not catch anything at all.
I really enjoy these sort of ideas that completely upend everything you thought you knew. I'll keep an open mind
Thank you so much. sometimes when I read it back it also sounds crazy to me! but that's because we've been taught dogma relentlessly since before school and assumed many scientific debates had already been closed when they hadn't even started. also of course the media is now actively promoting one view and censoring the other.
For me the mark of intelligence is not education or being clever but the ability to accept that everything one has been taught might be completely wrong.
Glad that you're never ill. Me neither, even when all my colleagues were also sneezing on me. The germ is nothing, the terrain is everything - this is meant to be Pasteur's recanting in his death bed!
The set of symptoms we call the common cold. Do you think there’s an agent or several agents that confer those symptoms? If not, how do you interpret the everyday experience of catching a cold from someone else? Is it just their imagination?
Aside from how people become ill, whether by “catching” something or becoming spontaneously unwell because something is wrong with diet, stress, inactivity etc (& I’ve always though all of the above were true, why couldn’t they be?) there are measurable changes in components of what we call the immune system.
If we don’t “catch” any illnesses from other living critters, how should we account for changes like the appearance in blood of binding proteins we call antibodies & the changes in ability of certain blood cells to become super activated when exposed to pieces of what mistaken people call viruses? I struggle with those questions. I’m happy to accept I’ve been fooled about viruses. I do see the problem with claims for them. But that does throw up a few questions to which I’ve not read or heard satisfactory answers.
It’s ridiculous for example that “human respiratory viruses” simply won’t grow in cell culture of human primary airway epithelial cells (either immersed or in air-liquid interface culture) & more than odd that they won’t infect & injure cells lines (immortal, cancerous cells from airways, like A549 cells, which are de-differentiated in morphology & a bit crap as a model of anything).
I too used to think (without thinking) that viruses transit illnesses & that vaccines were in general, safe & effective, though occasionally they did injure or kill people.
Rule of thumb though on the safe part: absolutely nothing in the medical field is free of unwanted effects. And things that cause changes we like are more likely to cause illnesses than things that don’t.
Welcome again & thank you for any answers you’ve come across as you made the leap from a set of untruths.
I've just reread your questions and realised you are far more sceptical about viruses than I anticipated. Given that stress and poisons can cause genetic changes and certain proteins to be expressed within our cells- which could produce binding globulins and enhance blood cells and all manner of things as the body adapts and returns to homeostasis( indeed 'HIV' proteins have been found in breast cancer cells and not normal surrounding tissue, and can be detected in the blood), and given the threat of future nonsense and lockdowns your comment
'I’m happy to accept I’ve been fooled about viruses. I do see the problem with claims for them'
is kind of important. Whatever the gaps in our understanding of the 'immune' system, the body's incredibly complicated interaction with the microbiome, each other and everything else, which lets face it are HUGE, it's kind of essential that the evidence for the existence of viruses themselves should be a topic for the mainstream and definitely not being censored! Whatever our questions- the burden of proof is with those inflicting restrictions and mandates and as THERE IS NO EVIDENCE IN THE LITERATURE THAT VIRUSES EXIST OR CAUSE DISEASE this should surely be at that heart of all discussions at the present time.
from the great Eleni Papadopulus-Eleopulus of the Perth Group; regarding the core p24 protein still used in Ab tests deciding the fate of people around the world;
The prevalence of cross-reactions is increased in patients with elevated levels of antibodies, such as AIDS patients. In other words far from distinguishing one molecule in a million, ABs are promiscuous, a behaviour which shocked the immunological community.
Monagnier know BRU had a surfeit of antibodies but not the origin of any. the data from his 4th experiment were that the 1.16g/ml band contains 3 proteins which reacted with Abs present in BRU. Even if one assumed that a know protein p24 cause the appearance of only one antibody which reacts with it and no other substance, the best one could say from Montagniers evidence is that at some stage of his life BRU came into contact with that protein. But nothing can be said of the origin of p24 itself.
Since BRU's serum contained a multitude of abs and abs cross react, any of his antibodies could have reacted with any of the proteins in the 1.16 g/ml band (including p24), even if BRU had never come into contact with ANY of them. Yet, from such a reaction Montagnier claimed to have determined the origin of both the protein and the antibody- a scientific impossibility.
In this experiment more that any other, controls are of fundamental importance because the results were interpreted as proving the existence of a new retrovirus, HIV, and it's proteins. And the same 'HIV' proteins were soon incorporated as antigens in the antibody test kits for the widespread diagnosis of HIV infection.
There is now widespread evidence that indeed BRU p24 'HIV' protein is prevalent worldwide in individuals who do have AiDS, are not at risk of AIDS and are healthy.
The use of a control would have averted the deaths of thousands from suicide and AZT poisoning.
Taking the proteins produced from stressed cells (these proteins are presumably involved in cell signalling, and may even be enzymes) and adding them back into culture of certain blood cells could easily trigger them to super activate.
Were 'viral' cultures (treated in exactly the same way; ie grown in abnormal, usually monkey cells with added antibiotics and mitagens such as PHA) using samples from a sick person with different symptoms and a heathy person( both negative and positive for the 'virus' in question) used as a controls. Otherwise it doesn't tell us anything.
All the original HIV experiments had no controls. School girl errors.
Those who wish to harm us seem to have been working on the alleged spike protein - I shall call it p78.3- a protein produced by stressing abnormal cells- since the 90's and seem to have reverse engineered it into an RNA sequence (the only bit of 'genome' that has been). If indeed it is expressed on human cell surface, that is also very worrying as it will be signalling to inflammation, activation, fever etc etc
This is where I get hung up too, people tend to catch illnesses from one another. And maybe there's not an answer yet, maybe we haven't found the mechanism of catching a cold from someone. But we can be open to the mechanism not necessarily being a virus.
A theory - Maybe we catch a part of a sick person's immune system. Maybe a person is sick because they are out of homeostasis and are detoxing for whatever reason. So their immune system is activated for this detox. Parts of their immune system are passed to another person who also needs to detox, triggering the same immune response that manifests as a cold. So instead of spreading something "bad" like an illness, when we are sick we spread something good. We spread our immune system components that helps other bodies that need detoxing also to return to homeostasis. It's a community-wide way help each other to detox before someone gets so toxic that it leads to a life-threatening illness. People in the community who don't need to detox of course won't be affected by the sick person's immune system.
Are there any components of the immune system that could spread through the air, or skin to skin contact?
Hello yes, I have also heard suggested that people are more likely to be triggered into detox by their family because of genetic similarities. some elderly people (especially if not well fed and kept indoors!) may not survive the detox. Yes, people in really polluted areas can't get the toxins out fast enough before it kills them.
Zach Bush recons there might be micro RNA that can spread and communicate information between us. Pheromones of course are sent and detected. We also are very good at picking up non verbal clues so it doesn't necessary have to be a physical thing. The ever present bacteria on our skin and guts can change 'function' and proliferate to deal with dead cells and tissue, they are not the cause of disease but part of the process. They may also communicate (we know horizontal gene transfer happens between them) with the microbiome (which has an enormous poorly understand important interaction with our 'immune' system) in another person. I hadn't thought of that before!!!
I think the important point at the moment is we don't need to explain everything, but those inflicting restrictions on our freedoms do need to provide evidence of a viral cause. Which they can't.
This is just the sort of grown up, open minded conversation you don't get on Twitter
May I ask, right in the middle of a dozen lies, many of which I can readily prove, in a situation where, if we together, cannot persuade emough people to those lies, we’ll all lose our liberty & probably our lives, the existential question is uppermost in your mind?
If like me your No. 1 goal is to debunk government & avoid humanity becoming enslaved, how in the world does your POV become uppermost?
Cheers
Mike
Ps: I am interested in your opinion on what I think about those aspects that lose answers, if vaccines go away.. so they matter (apparentl transmission is one, and changes to the immune system is another, I need a wholistic alternative if I’m to drop viruses.
Because it's the lie on which all the other lies - including the need for vaccines- is based. Because I hate being taken for a fool. Because it's interesting, exciting and liberating to know my health is in my hands. Because they will try and do it again with scary lab leaks and more dangerous infections. Because I want to feel some sort of control over my life - as we march towards a terminal war, with debate on a peaceful settlement equally censored and vilified by the enslavers as the debate on lockdowns and vaccine injuries and deaths has been. Because it's fascinating and wonderful to be alive and find out about my body even in the face of anniliation. Jo
I've just stumbled across this convo and am thrilled to read what you say because it is for me also fundamental to my life's meaning to banish fear and live freely in the knowledge that they have no power in reality. The lies, lies and more lies can't touch us.
https://georgiedonny.substack.com/p/substack?s=w thanks Mike. Cvd just like AIDS was deliberately created (though only in our minds) in order to control us. That's why it's so important to know the whole truth- so we that we have complete free will. Once you see that fundamental lie, every other annoyance we waste hours discussing- effectiveness of masks blah blah just completely falls away. No one will be scared into getting a lethal vaccine ever again. Because they will surely try to start another pandemic. And we'll all start arguing about PCR again. They have no power over me. I've seen the emperor has no clothes. Jo
Here is my thoughts on changes (to what?) in the immune system . many thanks, Jo
Many people seem to be hung up on antibodies. The $trillion testing and vaccine industry are very happy about that.
The proteins that 'antibodies' are meant to be reacting to have never been shown to come from viruses as purification, confirmed by EM, has not been done. How therefore can it determined which proteins on western blot are cellular and which viral?
Indeed the proteins discovered cannot come from a new virus as they found in healthy people (90% of cvd tested) now known as asymptomatic.
Yesterday I heard Stephen Bustin, our British expert on PCR, whose testing company is currently making a killing, suggest that these people are just about to become ill!
By that reasoning I may well be just about to get the flu, hepatitis, herpes, Rotatvirus, HIV, Epstein Barr and/or genital warts.
The proteins, which must be of cellular origin, are produced by stressors on cultured cells and in the body. Is it any surprise that changes take place in the 'immune' system as the body responds and recovers from toxins and pressures. 'Antibodies' are sticky globulins that are part of this process.
To say that they provided 'immunity' and 'memory' is just speculation.
As these proteins produced by stress come from inside the body and not from specific germs, the antibodies that react with them are common to many conditions. The list of HIV of 'cross reactions' is an arms length and includes pregnancy.
Interestingly HIV is tested for with the antibody test (Elisa or Western blot)- doesn't the dogma say that these people now have immunity? Weird. The number of proteins that need to be present for a positive vary across the world. You can become infected simply by crossing the US/ Canadian border. Positive tests from those not in high risk groups are often called negatives as subjective interpretation is allowed to be part of the protocol.
The PCR protocol can't be used for HIV testing as none of the sequences they have 'found' (made up) correlate in any way with those they 'expect' (want) to be positive, ie gay men, haemophiliacs and Black Africans.
Finally all vaccines are unnecessary, not only because of the decline in measles, whooping cough etc with better housing and banning of child labour, but because toxic 'adjuvants' ( eg aluminium) have to be added to the goop in vaccines to make the body start an 'immune' ie detoxification process. If toxins are not added the injection simply contains dead cells and debris from tissue culture. Clearly the the 'antibodies' tested for are produced in response to the adjuvants, as you would expect as part of the detoxification process, not to the non existent viruses.
Hi again. Please could you send me some papers where transmission of viruses in humans is demonstrated, because I have not found any. Indeed the experiments on 'Spanish Flu' patients (some say this may have partly have caused by vaccines, but no one can say it wasn't a stressful time in many ways!) showed that 62 healthy volunteers exposed to alleged virus by having by breathing the fetid breath of a very sick flu patient and having them repeatedly cough in their face, that, much to their surprise one developed a sore throat though no one developed linfluenza like illness at all. see page 11 https://quod.lib.umich.edu/f/flu/3750flu.0016.573/11/--experiments-upon-volunteers-to-determine-the-cause-and-mode?page=root;rgn=full+text;size=100;view=image
Honestly, please accept we’re not in a situation where anybody is open to persuading with a good argument or would go with something based on strong balance of probabilities.
I know this because I can show a deep peer reviewed literature on say lockdown or asymptomatic transmission, to the extent that I regard it as proven that neither are important modifiers of whatever this illness is.
Despite proving this, nada. No movement anywhere.
The virus existential question cannot be bottomed out to anything like the same ready proof. The tough part is proving negatives. A failure to show something is not the same as proving it doesn’t exist.
The classic phrase is “absence of evidence isn’t equal to evidence of absence”.
My job is to do my best to show people they’re being lied to.
Naturally, with that narrow focus, I major on things I believe I can prove they’re being lied to about.
I have no spare mental capacity to wrestle with your very important point, right now,
If we survive, then for sure it’s time will come.
Please now move on (not saying change your mind at all, just try someone else!)
Fair play. I have enjoyed finding out some more things, and crystallising my point of view. You expressed an interest, which I clearly got very excited about; I realise that I have been bombarding you in my enthusiasm. Thank you for the acknowledgment of the importance of my truth.
I am new to Substack where everything comes straight to one's inbox, not just visitng a website. Apologies.
Wishing you all the best, whatever happens we are being true to our selves and living in the light.
Looking at nearly 40 years of lessons from HIV is a great way to show 'how in the world' MY(!) POV became uppermost and why I think it is central to everything.
That HIV was the probable cause of AIDS was announced by a politician at press conference in 1984 and no scientific debate was allowed.
$billions have been spent (and made) on useless research which would have saved the lives of millions of Africans simply by giving them clean water. Many people committed suicide on receiving a positive test. Many more were and still are being poisoned and killed by 'incompatible with life' AZT and other treatments.
Most people probably still think HIV is sexually transmissible and can cause AIDS, even though its stuck firmly in the risk groups (whose tests are diagnosed differently) of homosexual men and impoverished, malnourished Africans. Studies show that the illness is only 'transmissible' through receptive anal sex. Semen is highly oxidising and the anus very thin. It is also correlated with the frequency of such acts, supporting this mechanism. Kaposi sarcoma is caused by drugs known as poppers and drug use, poor diet and lack of sleep and poverty sure ain't good for you.
Thank you for the article G&D and dr Yeadon for the exchange. I’m very interested in hearing more about this topic. After 2 years of eyes wide open I have fallen through many rabbit holes who led to sales 🤑 of moon grown meds and other strange remedies to cure what I call “ our collective madness”.
I try to navigate towards serious oceans and
Dr Yeadon has been one of the pillars keeping me sane throughout this period. 🙏
I don’t have a medical background but I know politics, a good deal of history and I read in 6 languages which along with my natural curiosity and obsession with “proof “ results in...well, a lot of questions.
I know I’m not alone. But I still can’t get over how FEW of us there are actually QUESTIONING!
Back to the article I must admit that I have been bugging my family professors (MDs) to explain colds to me for the passed 15 years.
There is something completely off with that VIRUS story , because I have NEVER GOTTEN a straight answer from anyone.
At best I dismiss it as “I don’t have the right background to grasp it”. But the same brains have been perfectly able to explain lots of medical conditions and complex issues to me. When it comes to viruses there’s a 🤷♀️!
I first met the VIRUS story with the birth of my child who got a 38C fever at day 5.
Skipping the details of the next 3 weeks in the hospital, I left with a tiny child filled to the brink with antibiotics and a diagnosis of viral meningitis.
To all my questions the doctors shrugged. And finally one young man replied “ we don’t know how the virus works, only his BODY can beat it.
The antibiotics were just in case if this was bacterial. “
They told us to come back for observations. We never did, child is perfect.
Why didn’t 10 of my friends BOT contract Covid while sleeping with infected spouses in the same bed, is as mysterious to me as the plastic mask forced on my 6 year old for 8 h a day. ( don’t worry took them all out of school as understand faaar more about polymers than Viruses ).
All mystery. But I love the PURIFICATION theory, we get bad stuff out. Not contagious but PERIODICAL.
(I’m also HUGE fan of mycelium and the fact we co-exist).
Also, historically humans have always purged themselves. Each year. Most often after the winter. We dont anymore since we have no spiritual connections to nature nor God , but that might just be our problem. Stuffing the body with processed foods and crap chemicals and never purify.
I keep looking out for more debate on this topic. Tell me if I can be of use researching.
Hello, just read this properly. So glad your child was OK. Whatever drugs you have it's always the body that heals itself. Symptom suppressing drugs just makes it more difficult! And whenever doctors don't know what's wrong with you they say, oh it's viral. Have you read 'What really make you ill' by Dawn Lester and David Parker. They've done a lot of research about this and easy to read. Answered some questions for me.
I'm right with you.. it feels weird to talk about the spiritual but humans clearly aren't just physical
Why not write a post on here with what you discover, I just decided one to do it one day. How did humans used to purge themselves? How can we be more connected? I'd love to read it
'HiV' for example can only be 'found' and subsequently used in experiments by cell culturing a particular abnormal cell line, and treating it in a particular way; starvation, antibiotics, indeed the use of the mitagen phenylhaemagglutin seems to be obligatory in order to 'isolate' HIV. A control using a sample from a patient in as close a condition to the first patient as possible, though without AIDS, and treating this in cell culture in exactly the same way is essential to the validity of the experiment.
Lack of proper controls dogs HIV research it seems.
None other than Gallo showed that presence of reverse transcriptase-(still taken by some as proof of isolation, though present in all of us)-was produced by non-virus infected PHA stimulated cells.
Given our true limited understanding of both nature and our interactions within it. Can't our current understanding of Virology and it's mechanism be both wrong and right? Functions such as chorum sensing, pleomorphism and exosomes etc could be responsible for "symptoms" that have been designated "virions, and therefore in the virology domain. But perhaps the pleomorphic theory on bacteria would explain these and so the concept that there is something smaller, different to bacteria (as virology theorises) causing certain disease, is still valid, and should be studied further.
Why must it be black or white? I understand the posit that by dissolving the concept of Virology as a whole negates all the actions taken, but what does that actually solve in real time? The actions taken by institutions, in the name of public health were bigger than should have, regardless of positions on virology or terrainology, so it's less about actual "pandemic" and more about bureaucracy, technocrat, government over reach and human behavioural psychology.
Sorry for interjection, if this was meant to be just between you and Dr Mike🤗
Glad to say welcome to Substack and I very much look forward to reading more from you!
yes and government over reach is the problem. what can we do. They are not ever going to listen to us with all the proof in the world about any of it. I suppose it's in the hope that we may have the opportunity to rebuild from the wreckage. And to build what we want. So, for me, based solidly on the terrain theory. Everyone provided with the essentials we already understand , clean water, fresh fruit and veg etc, before another penny is spent on research/making money for pharma!
Hello, no I think everything on here is for everyone to talk about.
Yes I take your point about virology although the experiments they have used and the claims they make from them are absurd- I don't know if your familiar with the Perth Group opus http://www.theperthgroup.com/HIV/TPGVirusLikeNoOther.pdf but yes they seem to have serendipitously hit upon proteins produced by cells under stress (in cell culture) which are also detectable in the body in cancer cells but not normal surrounding tissue cells for example. It's not possible to say whether these proteins are found in the particles and vesicles seen on EM though I don't think. They might be just from dying cells.
We're also hampered by a 'virus' of definition being contagious and pathological. There may be tiny packets of RNA floating about updating our DNA and communicating stuff. But they would have to have a different name.
Hello Mike,
Wow. Firstly OMG! I think you're amazing and brave for speaking up.
Yes I had all these questions and more.
I now think we don't understand what illness is at all. The symptoms of a cold can also be seen as a detoxification- of pollutants eg PM25 particularly in the winter when it's not sequestered by leafs, and also now many other environmental toxins, dead cells killed by hypothermia etc. There are only certain ways the body has to detox; mucus, coughing, rashes, spots, fever. This would partly explain why people get sick together, but to say that people in the same room all get presents at Christmas does not prove that it must be Santa!
I also think that there are signals that we send out to each, when it's important that we detox, to trigger reactions in each other and much that we don't understand. We are not islands, and function only in groups. Like trees and mushrooms communicate in incredibly complex ways. I also always think of the fact that yawning is contagious.
Yes I have worked with antibodies for many years. But if the so called viral proteins in cell culture are in fact cellular proteins produced under stress and therefore correlated with illness- then cells in the so called immune system would react to them and certain (not entirely specific) sticky globulins would be produced.
All the transmission studies I have seen for airborne viruses have involved just breathing out what was breathed in or injection directly into the trachea of small mammals and noting symptoms like coughing. I now think all scientific research is unacceptable if it uses animals.
I am sure you have read the Perth Group on the experiments performed by Montagnier which prove nothing. His patient sample (BRU) produced reverse transcriptase (accepted by all to be present in cells) which was called 'isolation' of a virus. He then added umbilical cord cells to the culture. These are known to produce a certain type of vesicle which he called an EM image of HIV (though it was only one 'virus' and it took the technician days to find). He then added his BRU blood back to the cell culture (containing proteins that came from him) and said look we have antibody/protein reactions. No wonder science died in 1984 when the probable cause for AIDS was announced at a press conference and no one was allowed to ask all these obvious questions.
Learning about the actual causes including DDT of polio, diphtheria and measles etc and how they were declining very rapidly into insignificance with better housing, water and the banning of child labour, and then looking at the Pharma marketing website wikipedia that it was actually vaccines that did this, has further confirmed my thoughts on the matter! and that it's easy to get a ban from twitter to mention autism and MMR in the same sentence.
Anyway thank you so much again, great to communicate
Jo
Absolutely fascinating. When I first read this article my initial response was, "nah, that's crazy" but the more I think about it the more plausible I find this theory.
Personal anecdote time... I'm almost never sick, in the last 5 years I've probably only had 2 minor illnesses, minor colds that resolve themselves in a few days. In both instances it seemed completely arbitrary. There wasn't anyone who was noticeably symptomatic who I was spending any time around in order to catch anything from. So it's odd that I can not have close personal contact with anyone yet end up getting sick when at other times in the last 5 years I can be surrounded by people who are coughing and spluttering and not catch anything at all.
I really enjoy these sort of ideas that completely upend everything you thought you knew. I'll keep an open mind
Thank you so much. sometimes when I read it back it also sounds crazy to me! but that's because we've been taught dogma relentlessly since before school and assumed many scientific debates had already been closed when they hadn't even started. also of course the media is now actively promoting one view and censoring the other.
For me the mark of intelligence is not education or being clever but the ability to accept that everything one has been taught might be completely wrong.
Glad that you're never ill. Me neither, even when all my colleagues were also sneezing on me. The germ is nothing, the terrain is everything - this is meant to be Pasteur's recanting in his death bed!
Power to open minds!
Lovely to connect on substake,
Jo
Welcome! A few questions if I may.
The set of symptoms we call the common cold. Do you think there’s an agent or several agents that confer those symptoms? If not, how do you interpret the everyday experience of catching a cold from someone else? Is it just their imagination?
Aside from how people become ill, whether by “catching” something or becoming spontaneously unwell because something is wrong with diet, stress, inactivity etc (& I’ve always though all of the above were true, why couldn’t they be?) there are measurable changes in components of what we call the immune system.
If we don’t “catch” any illnesses from other living critters, how should we account for changes like the appearance in blood of binding proteins we call antibodies & the changes in ability of certain blood cells to become super activated when exposed to pieces of what mistaken people call viruses? I struggle with those questions. I’m happy to accept I’ve been fooled about viruses. I do see the problem with claims for them. But that does throw up a few questions to which I’ve not read or heard satisfactory answers.
It’s ridiculous for example that “human respiratory viruses” simply won’t grow in cell culture of human primary airway epithelial cells (either immersed or in air-liquid interface culture) & more than odd that they won’t infect & injure cells lines (immortal, cancerous cells from airways, like A549 cells, which are de-differentiated in morphology & a bit crap as a model of anything).
I too used to think (without thinking) that viruses transit illnesses & that vaccines were in general, safe & effective, though occasionally they did injure or kill people.
Rule of thumb though on the safe part: absolutely nothing in the medical field is free of unwanted effects. And things that cause changes we like are more likely to cause illnesses than things that don’t.
Welcome again & thank you for any answers you’ve come across as you made the leap from a set of untruths.
Hi again Mike,
I've just reread your questions and realised you are far more sceptical about viruses than I anticipated. Given that stress and poisons can cause genetic changes and certain proteins to be expressed within our cells- which could produce binding globulins and enhance blood cells and all manner of things as the body adapts and returns to homeostasis( indeed 'HIV' proteins have been found in breast cancer cells and not normal surrounding tissue, and can be detected in the blood), and given the threat of future nonsense and lockdowns your comment
'I’m happy to accept I’ve been fooled about viruses. I do see the problem with claims for them'
is kind of important. Whatever the gaps in our understanding of the 'immune' system, the body's incredibly complicated interaction with the microbiome, each other and everything else, which lets face it are HUGE, it's kind of essential that the evidence for the existence of viruses themselves should be a topic for the mainstream and definitely not being censored! Whatever our questions- the burden of proof is with those inflicting restrictions and mandates and as THERE IS NO EVIDENCE IN THE LITERATURE THAT VIRUSES EXIST OR CAUSE DISEASE this should surely be at that heart of all discussions at the present time.
Thanks again Mike,
Jo
from the great Eleni Papadopulus-Eleopulus of the Perth Group; regarding the core p24 protein still used in Ab tests deciding the fate of people around the world;
The prevalence of cross-reactions is increased in patients with elevated levels of antibodies, such as AIDS patients. In other words far from distinguishing one molecule in a million, ABs are promiscuous, a behaviour which shocked the immunological community.
Monagnier know BRU had a surfeit of antibodies but not the origin of any. the data from his 4th experiment were that the 1.16g/ml band contains 3 proteins which reacted with Abs present in BRU. Even if one assumed that a know protein p24 cause the appearance of only one antibody which reacts with it and no other substance, the best one could say from Montagniers evidence is that at some stage of his life BRU came into contact with that protein. But nothing can be said of the origin of p24 itself.
Since BRU's serum contained a multitude of abs and abs cross react, any of his antibodies could have reacted with any of the proteins in the 1.16 g/ml band (including p24), even if BRU had never come into contact with ANY of them. Yet, from such a reaction Montagnier claimed to have determined the origin of both the protein and the antibody- a scientific impossibility.
In this experiment more that any other, controls are of fundamental importance because the results were interpreted as proving the existence of a new retrovirus, HIV, and it's proteins. And the same 'HIV' proteins were soon incorporated as antigens in the antibody test kits for the widespread diagnosis of HIV infection.
There is now widespread evidence that indeed BRU p24 'HIV' protein is prevalent worldwide in individuals who do have AiDS, are not at risk of AIDS and are healthy.
The use of a control would have averted the deaths of thousands from suicide and AZT poisoning.
Hiya,
Taking the proteins produced from stressed cells (these proteins are presumably involved in cell signalling, and may even be enzymes) and adding them back into culture of certain blood cells could easily trigger them to super activate.
Were 'viral' cultures (treated in exactly the same way; ie grown in abnormal, usually monkey cells with added antibiotics and mitagens such as PHA) using samples from a sick person with different symptoms and a heathy person( both negative and positive for the 'virus' in question) used as a controls. Otherwise it doesn't tell us anything.
All the original HIV experiments had no controls. School girl errors.
Those who wish to harm us seem to have been working on the alleged spike protein - I shall call it p78.3- a protein produced by stressing abnormal cells- since the 90's and seem to have reverse engineered it into an RNA sequence (the only bit of 'genome' that has been). If indeed it is expressed on human cell surface, that is also very worrying as it will be signalling to inflammation, activation, fever etc etc
This is where I get hung up too, people tend to catch illnesses from one another. And maybe there's not an answer yet, maybe we haven't found the mechanism of catching a cold from someone. But we can be open to the mechanism not necessarily being a virus.
A theory - Maybe we catch a part of a sick person's immune system. Maybe a person is sick because they are out of homeostasis and are detoxing for whatever reason. So their immune system is activated for this detox. Parts of their immune system are passed to another person who also needs to detox, triggering the same immune response that manifests as a cold. So instead of spreading something "bad" like an illness, when we are sick we spread something good. We spread our immune system components that helps other bodies that need detoxing also to return to homeostasis. It's a community-wide way help each other to detox before someone gets so toxic that it leads to a life-threatening illness. People in the community who don't need to detox of course won't be affected by the sick person's immune system.
Are there any components of the immune system that could spread through the air, or skin to skin contact?
Hello yes, I have also heard suggested that people are more likely to be triggered into detox by their family because of genetic similarities. some elderly people (especially if not well fed and kept indoors!) may not survive the detox. Yes, people in really polluted areas can't get the toxins out fast enough before it kills them.
Zach Bush recons there might be micro RNA that can spread and communicate information between us. Pheromones of course are sent and detected. We also are very good at picking up non verbal clues so it doesn't necessary have to be a physical thing. The ever present bacteria on our skin and guts can change 'function' and proliferate to deal with dead cells and tissue, they are not the cause of disease but part of the process. They may also communicate (we know horizontal gene transfer happens between them) with the microbiome (which has an enormous poorly understand important interaction with our 'immune' system) in another person. I hadn't thought of that before!!!
I think the important point at the moment is we don't need to explain everything, but those inflicting restrictions on our freedoms do need to provide evidence of a viral cause. Which they can't.
This is just the sort of grown up, open minded conversation you don't get on Twitter
Great to connect on substake,
jo
May I ask, right in the middle of a dozen lies, many of which I can readily prove, in a situation where, if we together, cannot persuade emough people to those lies, we’ll all lose our liberty & probably our lives, the existential question is uppermost in your mind?
If like me your No. 1 goal is to debunk government & avoid humanity becoming enslaved, how in the world does your POV become uppermost?
Cheers
Mike
Ps: I am interested in your opinion on what I think about those aspects that lose answers, if vaccines go away.. so they matter (apparentl transmission is one, and changes to the immune system is another, I need a wholistic alternative if I’m to drop viruses.
Because it's the lie on which all the other lies - including the need for vaccines- is based. Because I hate being taken for a fool. Because it's interesting, exciting and liberating to know my health is in my hands. Because they will try and do it again with scary lab leaks and more dangerous infections. Because I want to feel some sort of control over my life - as we march towards a terminal war, with debate on a peaceful settlement equally censored and vilified by the enslavers as the debate on lockdowns and vaccine injuries and deaths has been. Because it's fascinating and wonderful to be alive and find out about my body even in the face of anniliation. Jo
I've just stumbled across this convo and am thrilled to read what you say because it is for me also fundamental to my life's meaning to banish fear and live freely in the knowledge that they have no power in reality. The lies, lies and more lies can't touch us.
Yes absolutely. They only have the power we give them 🙏🏽
https://georgiedonny.substack.com/p/substack?s=w thanks Mike. Cvd just like AIDS was deliberately created (though only in our minds) in order to control us. That's why it's so important to know the whole truth- so we that we have complete free will. Once you see that fundamental lie, every other annoyance we waste hours discussing- effectiveness of masks blah blah just completely falls away. No one will be scared into getting a lethal vaccine ever again. Because they will surely try to start another pandemic. And we'll all start arguing about PCR again. They have no power over me. I've seen the emperor has no clothes. Jo
Here is my thoughts on changes (to what?) in the immune system . many thanks, Jo
Many people seem to be hung up on antibodies. The $trillion testing and vaccine industry are very happy about that.
The proteins that 'antibodies' are meant to be reacting to have never been shown to come from viruses as purification, confirmed by EM, has not been done. How therefore can it determined which proteins on western blot are cellular and which viral?
Indeed the proteins discovered cannot come from a new virus as they found in healthy people (90% of cvd tested) now known as asymptomatic.
Yesterday I heard Stephen Bustin, our British expert on PCR, whose testing company is currently making a killing, suggest that these people are just about to become ill!
By that reasoning I may well be just about to get the flu, hepatitis, herpes, Rotatvirus, HIV, Epstein Barr and/or genital warts.
The proteins, which must be of cellular origin, are produced by stressors on cultured cells and in the body. Is it any surprise that changes take place in the 'immune' system as the body responds and recovers from toxins and pressures. 'Antibodies' are sticky globulins that are part of this process.
To say that they provided 'immunity' and 'memory' is just speculation.
As these proteins produced by stress come from inside the body and not from specific germs, the antibodies that react with them are common to many conditions. The list of HIV of 'cross reactions' is an arms length and includes pregnancy.
Interestingly HIV is tested for with the antibody test (Elisa or Western blot)- doesn't the dogma say that these people now have immunity? Weird. The number of proteins that need to be present for a positive vary across the world. You can become infected simply by crossing the US/ Canadian border. Positive tests from those not in high risk groups are often called negatives as subjective interpretation is allowed to be part of the protocol.
The PCR protocol can't be used for HIV testing as none of the sequences they have 'found' (made up) correlate in any way with those they 'expect' (want) to be positive, ie gay men, haemophiliacs and Black Africans.
Finally all vaccines are unnecessary, not only because of the decline in measles, whooping cough etc with better housing and banning of child labour, but because toxic 'adjuvants' ( eg aluminium) have to be added to the goop in vaccines to make the body start an 'immune' ie detoxification process. If toxins are not added the injection simply contains dead cells and debris from tissue culture. Clearly the the 'antibodies' tested for are produced in response to the adjuvants, as you would expect as part of the detoxification process, not to the non existent viruses.
Hi again. Please could you send me some papers where transmission of viruses in humans is demonstrated, because I have not found any. Indeed the experiments on 'Spanish Flu' patients (some say this may have partly have caused by vaccines, but no one can say it wasn't a stressful time in many ways!) showed that 62 healthy volunteers exposed to alleged virus by having by breathing the fetid breath of a very sick flu patient and having them repeatedly cough in their face, that, much to their surprise one developed a sore throat though no one developed linfluenza like illness at all. see page 11 https://quod.lib.umich.edu/f/flu/3750flu.0016.573/11/--experiments-upon-volunteers-to-determine-the-cause-and-mode?page=root;rgn=full+text;size=100;view=image
This isn’t going to get to a win / win.
I don’t care if viruses exist or don’t exist.
Honestly, please accept we’re not in a situation where anybody is open to persuading with a good argument or would go with something based on strong balance of probabilities.
I know this because I can show a deep peer reviewed literature on say lockdown or asymptomatic transmission, to the extent that I regard it as proven that neither are important modifiers of whatever this illness is.
Despite proving this, nada. No movement anywhere.
The virus existential question cannot be bottomed out to anything like the same ready proof. The tough part is proving negatives. A failure to show something is not the same as proving it doesn’t exist.
The classic phrase is “absence of evidence isn’t equal to evidence of absence”.
My job is to do my best to show people they’re being lied to.
Naturally, with that narrow focus, I major on things I believe I can prove they’re being lied to about.
I have no spare mental capacity to wrestle with your very important point, right now,
If we survive, then for sure it’s time will come.
Please now move on (not saying change your mind at all, just try someone else!)
Best wishes
Mike
Fair play. I have enjoyed finding out some more things, and crystallising my point of view. You expressed an interest, which I clearly got very excited about; I realise that I have been bombarding you in my enthusiasm. Thank you for the acknowledgment of the importance of my truth.
I am new to Substack where everything comes straight to one's inbox, not just visitng a website. Apologies.
Wishing you all the best, whatever happens we are being true to our selves and living in the light.
Kind regards,
Jo
Hi again Mike,
Looking at nearly 40 years of lessons from HIV is a great way to show 'how in the world' MY(!) POV became uppermost and why I think it is central to everything.
That HIV was the probable cause of AIDS was announced by a politician at press conference in 1984 and no scientific debate was allowed.
$billions have been spent (and made) on useless research which would have saved the lives of millions of Africans simply by giving them clean water. Many people committed suicide on receiving a positive test. Many more were and still are being poisoned and killed by 'incompatible with life' AZT and other treatments.
Most people probably still think HIV is sexually transmissible and can cause AIDS, even though its stuck firmly in the risk groups (whose tests are diagnosed differently) of homosexual men and impoverished, malnourished Africans. Studies show that the illness is only 'transmissible' through receptive anal sex. Semen is highly oxidising and the anus very thin. It is also correlated with the frequency of such acts, supporting this mechanism. Kaposi sarcoma is caused by drugs known as poppers and drug use, poor diet and lack of sleep and poverty sure ain't good for you.
The work of the fabulous Perth group on Montagnier and Gallo's experiments http://www.theperthgroup.com/HIV/TPGVirusLikeNoOther.pdf is highly recommend as it will make the virus HIV go away!
Jo
Because we need NEW POVs, so science can raise again.
I got killed on Twitter for saying “debate is an important part of science” by some climate change illiterate scientists.
Food for thought:
If we were to accept only the science which is not PAID FOR by big pharma, how much could we cut off ?
How should I read the Lancet when Blackrock controls 10% ? While being the second largest owner of Pfeizer. 🤔 ( and JJ and Merck ...etc )
yes yes yes
Thank you for the article G&D and dr Yeadon for the exchange. I’m very interested in hearing more about this topic. After 2 years of eyes wide open I have fallen through many rabbit holes who led to sales 🤑 of moon grown meds and other strange remedies to cure what I call “ our collective madness”.
I try to navigate towards serious oceans and
Dr Yeadon has been one of the pillars keeping me sane throughout this period. 🙏
I don’t have a medical background but I know politics, a good deal of history and I read in 6 languages which along with my natural curiosity and obsession with “proof “ results in...well, a lot of questions.
I know I’m not alone. But I still can’t get over how FEW of us there are actually QUESTIONING!
Back to the article I must admit that I have been bugging my family professors (MDs) to explain colds to me for the passed 15 years.
There is something completely off with that VIRUS story , because I have NEVER GOTTEN a straight answer from anyone.
At best I dismiss it as “I don’t have the right background to grasp it”. But the same brains have been perfectly able to explain lots of medical conditions and complex issues to me. When it comes to viruses there’s a 🤷♀️!
I first met the VIRUS story with the birth of my child who got a 38C fever at day 5.
Skipping the details of the next 3 weeks in the hospital, I left with a tiny child filled to the brink with antibiotics and a diagnosis of viral meningitis.
To all my questions the doctors shrugged. And finally one young man replied “ we don’t know how the virus works, only his BODY can beat it.
The antibiotics were just in case if this was bacterial. “
They told us to come back for observations. We never did, child is perfect.
Why didn’t 10 of my friends BOT contract Covid while sleeping with infected spouses in the same bed, is as mysterious to me as the plastic mask forced on my 6 year old for 8 h a day. ( don’t worry took them all out of school as understand faaar more about polymers than Viruses ).
All mystery. But I love the PURIFICATION theory, we get bad stuff out. Not contagious but PERIODICAL.
(I’m also HUGE fan of mycelium and the fact we co-exist).
Also, historically humans have always purged themselves. Each year. Most often after the winter. We dont anymore since we have no spiritual connections to nature nor God , but that might just be our problem. Stuffing the body with processed foods and crap chemicals and never purify.
I keep looking out for more debate on this topic. Tell me if I can be of use researching.
🌸
Madie
Hello, just read this properly. So glad your child was OK. Whatever drugs you have it's always the body that heals itself. Symptom suppressing drugs just makes it more difficult! And whenever doctors don't know what's wrong with you they say, oh it's viral. Have you read 'What really make you ill' by Dawn Lester and David Parker. They've done a lot of research about this and easy to read. Answered some questions for me.
I'm right with you.. it feels weird to talk about the spiritual but humans clearly aren't just physical
Why not write a post on here with what you discover, I just decided one to do it one day. How did humans used to purge themselves? How can we be more connected? I'd love to read it
Jox
Deal.
Hello Madie, love this! Jo
Always use a control ;virus like particles bud from uninfected H9 (used for HIV cell culture) cells https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8468566/
'HiV' for example can only be 'found' and subsequently used in experiments by cell culturing a particular abnormal cell line, and treating it in a particular way; starvation, antibiotics, indeed the use of the mitagen phenylhaemagglutin seems to be obligatory in order to 'isolate' HIV. A control using a sample from a patient in as close a condition to the first patient as possible, though without AIDS, and treating this in cell culture in exactly the same way is essential to the validity of the experiment.
Lack of proper controls dogs HIV research it seems.
None other than Gallo showed that presence of reverse transcriptase-(still taken by some as proof of isolation, though present in all of us)-was produced by non-virus infected PHA stimulated cells.
Must it be one or the other?
Given our true limited understanding of both nature and our interactions within it. Can't our current understanding of Virology and it's mechanism be both wrong and right? Functions such as chorum sensing, pleomorphism and exosomes etc could be responsible for "symptoms" that have been designated "virions, and therefore in the virology domain. But perhaps the pleomorphic theory on bacteria would explain these and so the concept that there is something smaller, different to bacteria (as virology theorises) causing certain disease, is still valid, and should be studied further.
Why must it be black or white? I understand the posit that by dissolving the concept of Virology as a whole negates all the actions taken, but what does that actually solve in real time? The actions taken by institutions, in the name of public health were bigger than should have, regardless of positions on virology or terrainology, so it's less about actual "pandemic" and more about bureaucracy, technocrat, government over reach and human behavioural psychology.
Sorry for interjection, if this was meant to be just between you and Dr Mike🤗
Glad to say welcome to Substack and I very much look forward to reading more from you!
yes and government over reach is the problem. what can we do. They are not ever going to listen to us with all the proof in the world about any of it. I suppose it's in the hope that we may have the opportunity to rebuild from the wreckage. And to build what we want. So, for me, based solidly on the terrain theory. Everyone provided with the essentials we already understand , clean water, fresh fruit and veg etc, before another penny is spent on research/making money for pharma!
Hello, no I think everything on here is for everyone to talk about.
Yes I take your point about virology although the experiments they have used and the claims they make from them are absurd- I don't know if your familiar with the Perth Group opus http://www.theperthgroup.com/HIV/TPGVirusLikeNoOther.pdf but yes they seem to have serendipitously hit upon proteins produced by cells under stress (in cell culture) which are also detectable in the body in cancer cells but not normal surrounding tissue cells for example. It's not possible to say whether these proteins are found in the particles and vesicles seen on EM though I don't think. They might be just from dying cells.
We're also hampered by a 'virus' of definition being contagious and pathological. There may be tiny packets of RNA floating about updating our DNA and communicating stuff. But they would have to have a different name.
Fascinating stuff any way
Jo